SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Mr20Paws,

I thank you for your perspectives and guidance and I am happy for you that you were able to use your faith as well as other tools to find your path through this mess. That is awesome and I would never wish to be seen as trying to diminish its importance.

However, for me, my only hope of surviving and thriving was to walk away. I did not leave my faith because of my wife’s affairs. (But they did make it easier to do.) I have never regretted that decision nor have I ever looked back. Please understand that I’m not talking about your faith but my faith as I understood. I was taught to test the fruits of the spirit, and when I did, it proved to be false in its teachings and promises.

My hope is that this difference between us doesn’t become an insurmountable wall between us. I have no discomfort with other’s faith. Typically they have deep discomfort with my disbelief.

Asterisk

I maintain that setting her down and demanding my right to participate would be counter productive and, it is my belief, I do not have the right to do so.

As noted before, if you’re good — and think you will heal up without talking about things that may still hurt — then go with that.

However, every person in an M, especially one hurt by the other, has the RIGHT to address pain caused by the other as needed.

You are working on your perception of the past, and focusing on the now. It is just plain tougher to do that solo, when it sounds like (at key times) your teammate is watching from the sidelines.

My take is only based on what worked for me at Oldwounds HQ.

Ultimately, I don’t have enough information to know if you’re being helped enough by your wife to get as healed as you need.

OldWounds,

However, every person in an M, especially one hurt by the other, has the RIGHT to address pain caused by the other as needed.

I would be in error trying to argue against your statement here. The issue to me is that my wife has her rights as well and when two rights slams into each other then the person that says "no" always trumps the person that says "yes". As I see it, there is nothing fair about this collision of no verses yes, but to force a person to do anything not of their choosing is not the wises path to take.

That said, I had back then, and still do, the right to choose to leave. But I chose to stay after the D-days and I choose to stay now and navigate my own self, in my own way, around the "no" logjam and have come to peace with my wife’s way of managing her own changes in her own way. I have taken a lot of heat here for this position and I am lost as to why that seems so difficult for many here. I maintain that if she works through her issues in her style the changes will be more authentic and have better sticking power. She has her own agency as I do.

My position is that there may be better ways, more efficient ways to steer oneself through the dangerous curves of infidelity than I have done. But "best", "more efficient" is not the only way and not always, in every circumstance, the best, most efficient way.

Asterisk

Asterisk,

I have taken a lot of heat here for this position and I am lost as to why that seems so difficult for many here. I maintain that if she works through her issues in her style the changes will be more authentic and have better sticking power. She has her own agency as I do.

You’re not taking heat in my mind — people are asking for you to advocate for yourself.

You already know that your wife, who is supposed to keep you safe — willfully hurt you in the worst emotional way possible, TWICE.

She chose to do what she did.

You had no agency when other people are being added to your relationship without your knowledge!

If I ever choose to hurt someone, and it hasn’t happened much in my life, I own my choices, I make amends.

Balance is broken and to restore that balance, you should be able to ask anything you require to heal.

Pretty clear, you’re not happy and healed, or you wouldn’t be wrestling with it so much in the present day.

You are putting the weight of the M recovery on YOU, by suggesting you want to change your focus and perspective to keep her safe.

That’s what a good partner does, keeps their person safe.

You continue to hold up your end without wanting to disturb the person who chose to cause harm.

Maybe that’s the heat you may be feeling in reading people’s responses.

No balance can be restored if one person is doing more work than the other.

And we can only base that work on what you share, and I’ve not seen anything you have posted to suggest she is reaching out to help you through this. I don’t mean years ago, I mean today.

It could mean, she still has some shame around it, but that means, she has some healing left to do as well, which you could help her with, IF she lets you in.

My wife told me, she broke it, and she would take the lead to fix it.

Neither of us knew what it meant, but I loved the sentiment and the intent. It allowed me to give her room to heal too, and yet, I got to ask all the questions I needed. I can still ask questions about it if I want, I just don’t have the need anymore after 1.4 million answers. The key to the new balance is, I know I can ask for more help if I do need it.

All I am saying is, for a happier, healthier you, for a happier, healthier M, you should be COMFORTABLE asking for help about the A, you should be made to feel safe by the person who took that safety away.

I don’t see it as asking for her agency, you’re asking for more love and kindness — and empathy, as you tackle this stuff solo.

We all recover how we choose, and one last time, if you’re good fixing you and leaving your partner out of it, go with that.

I just feel like I wouldn’t be helpful if I didn’t point out WHY it is important BOTH people help heal the M.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 4:43 PM, Tuesday, March 24th]

OldWounds,

Pretty clear, you’re not happy and healed, or you wouldn’t be wrestling with it so much in the present day.

Everything you have written above this line I believe you are pretty spot on. I do feel the need to ask you to reconsider the above line.

I am very happy with my life and my wife. Being here should not imply otherwise. I mean, you are here and are you not happy? That is not meant to be snotty just to clarify.

I will concede that there are areas in my healing that need people, like yourself, to shed light on some of my blind spots. And I have appreciated every bit of information shared. I may push back on some of it but that doesn’t mean I don’t pay attention and have backoff when I could finally see where I either misunderstood what was said or that I was in error of my position.

It is guys and girls like yourself who do not give up on me that really helps to push my healing process. That all said, I am a happy man who is living and loving life with a happy wife, but I am aware that there is some happiness that I am missing out on. And that is why I am here.

No balance can be restored if one person is doing more work than the other.

This is the interesting part and why it is important to keep talking. My position is that my wife is doing equal work, only in a way that I don’t do it, nor understand how it works. Though I feel left out, it is my responsibility to honor her process as long as she is working at it. I won’t say it doesn’t cause me to suffer but that is for me to self-reflect and find peace. I do agree with you that if she were not doing anything the tables would be unbalanced, but I’ve not made that claim.

All I am saying is, for a happier, healthier you, for a happier, healthier M, you should be COMFORTABLE asking for help about the A, you should be made to feel safe by the person who took that safety away.

There are a lot of "shoulds here and I agree with everyone. However, that is not the puzzle I have been given to put back together. I had to find the pieces as they were, not as I thought they should be, and then figure out how to put them back together the best way I knew how.

We all recover how we choose, and one last time, if you’re good fixing you and leaving your partner out of it, go with that.
I just feel like I wouldn’t be helpful if I didn’t point out WHY it is important BOTH people help heal the M.

This is a very meaningful paragraph, and I do recognize and value your thoughts and suggestions. They have been enormously helpful to me and my process over the past 8 months. Never once have I felt unsupported. A little heat once in a while, but heat is a signal that I need to pay attention.

Asterisk

Hey Asterisk -

That all said, I am a happy man who is living and loving life with a happy wife, but I am aware that there is some happiness that I am missing out on. And that is why I am here.

My line came across as all-encompassing, and I didn’t mean it that way. I wasn’t trying to ignore the good stuff you have going.

The line was aiming at the last part — the happiness you are missing out on.

And this part:

I won’t say it doesn’t cause me to suffer but that is for me to self-reflect and find peace.

It is the suffering part that hits me in the emotion of your posts.

I think we’ve all done plenty of that, and there is so many more things out there that will cause us more before we leave this life.

I think my reward for the hard work of R is that my M and my wife are the one place (once again) where I can go to NOT suffer.

Not to sound like the 60’s, but I like peace, love and understanding when I need it most from my relationship.

Anyway, I’m not going to beat on any dead horses, or live ones either!

My recap is simply: I wish your wife offered more empathy today than what you’ve described. I think that would ease the suffering part.

...I feel left out...

Of course you do. You are, in deed, being left out, just as you were left out during both of her affairs.

You are the only betrayed spouse I've encountered on this site who is insistent that one can reconcile alone. Every other betrayed spouse who has reconciled with their wayward spouse has been able, as much as humanly possible, to understand why their spouse became wayward and how they have owned and fixed their shit.

Throughout your entire journey here on SI, this singular theme stands out above all of the other issues with which you struggle.

Living in the present, being mindful of today, is all fine and dandy. Learning new coping mechanisms is good stuff, as is continuing to heal.

It's not enough. And I think deep down inside you know this to be true. I cannot comprehend how someone like you can be content with such a profoundly superficial relationship. It makes me wonder if your wife is deliberately holding back some terribly disturbing truths and whether or not you're afraid of what you might find out if she were willing to bare her soul. It's not at all impossible that she is resolved to take some dark secrets to her grave.

Of course, I could be wrong. It's possible, I suppose, that she's uncommonly shallow or simply incapable of being sufficiently articulate. I find that difficult to believe, but, of course, I don’t know her like you do.